I was procrastinating as usual and so I was going through some sites and came across the following tukh from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib:
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The friendship of a queer type will wash and destroy the sanctity of friendship; the friends and enemies will go together for their self-interest.26.
(Rest of the Shabad can be read here)
It be nice if that tukh was enough to end the whole gay sikh debate, but sadly enough it'll probably only get more people to reject Bani from Sri Dasam Granth.Anyhow, check out the Shabad, pretty interesting considering the way Guru Sahib describes the depth and details of Kaljug, seems like many of those things have come to pass, or are passing.
Also the tukhs on religion and lack of it in people and the whole Gurudom's popping up every 4 days, reminded me a lot about India, and current rate that Sants and Nakli Guru's are popping up.
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nice one
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anyone who denies gurbani has in many ways left sikhi
yeah, alll of kalkee avtaar is ILLLLLL
guru sahibs wickked
There is no gay Sikh debate that can be ended. Everybody is allowed to be a Sikh. The only thing that can be ended is the decision of a Sikh to follow Guru Ji’s hukam to be compassionate or not. You can’t change that which you intrinsically are. If somebody asked me to no longer be attracted to women, I couldn’t do it. So I’m not going to ask anybody else to stop being attracted to any other person. In the real world there are hundreds of gays, drugees, prostitutes, and thieves. It’s not our place as to decide what their fate is. Neither is it our place to treat them differently than any other person. I live in America where most people consider it normal to have many sexual relations before marriage. I don’t agree with that either, but am I going to tell just about every non-Sikh I know that we won’t accept them or that they are sinners?
Gay people have it hard enough from the rest of society, we don’t need to treat them poorly as well. I don’t ever want to stand in the way of people who want to learn about the Guru. If a gay person wants to be Sikh, that’s fine with me, who the hell am I to tell them what they can or can’t do. There is no fruitful debate that can come of people’s unwavering convictions. If you believe gay people are bad and can change their preference, it’s not worth arguing with somebody who believes otherwise. Debating any Sikh issue is generally a waste of time. We are all learners, we all have unique challenges. Most adults I know have to fight lust, some are gay some aren’t, there’s really no difference. The focus or debate should be with ourselves and how we allow ourselves to make mistakes. Guru Gobind Singh told us to recognize all humans as one. All humans include straights, gays, bisexuals, hermaphrodites and everybody else born of a human.
Prabhu Singh,
The fact alone that you replied with a differing stance on this, alone shows there is a debate.
Firstly, no ones saying to go out and harrass or beat up on people. Rather a simple fact that Homosexual behaviour is not condoned or looked highly upon in Sikhi.
I didn’t mean that there is no debate, but that no debate on this issue can be ended. I don’t think homosexuality has anything to do with Sikhi or vice versa. Some would say that hetorosexuality is not condoned in Sikhi, and that it should only occur when trying to conceive. I think it’s a matter of the individual’s journey. The only thing that Sikhi looks down upon is lust. Some people believe everything sexual to be lustful, others believe otherwise.
I really don’t think there is one single thing about homosexuality in Sikhi. I can’t translate the tukh that you posted, but the English version could be interpreted in many ways, because queer just means strange. Also I’d have to know the cultural language of the time of Guru Gobind Singh to know if they had a word for gay people. Often times we find things like one word representing a variety of meaning. There could be one word for gay people which also includes people who are into other sexual things. Anything queer (strange) could be referred to as one word. For example the word kateb, which means ‘book’, is used in the Siri Guru Granth Sahib to refer to religious texts. When some people translate this they write, the koran, vedas, and bible. Others will write koran, vedas, and other holy scriptures. Some say the koran and abrahamic scriptures. There are so many interpretations of this one word.
The point really is that some people may believe that there is a reference to homosexuality, but there may not be any. I know I’ve never found anything and none of the other Sikhs with gyan that I know have ever mentioned anything about it. The emphasis is on fighting lust, which we each have to do in our own ways. This is definitely a personal battle. In the mean time, gay people will usually stand as a reminder to me about how we need to be compassionate to people who are suffering in this world.
Good point..
prabu singh i think u have made a very interesting and also good point and i agree with you. Shinda Singh on the other hand u have this whole site about sikhi… good job. but have u told ur friends about the things u did at the camp in mi? let me explain u stole tapes….from a nonprofitable SIKH organization and would only return then if they gave u money? huh…..in my opinion u have no right to talk about sikhi in such a way when u urself have commited such a great sin
ye shinda was in mi tooooo, mans collecting his air miles